Loot Whore

I have been aware of the term “Loot Whore” since the inception of Everquest.  As defined on the web a Loot Whore is:

A greedy person, typically of an mmo, who believes that all loots belong to him and him only. No one else matters and the loot whore will rarely consider others when practicing the ways of the loot whore. Attempts are frequently made to reverse the loot whore’s way of thinking, but sadly it is an irreversible condition.

 Loot Whore and Ninja Looter are pretty much interchangeable at times.  Ninja looters, most of the time, pop up in PuG’s, where they can’t hid very well and once uncovered are usually dealt with pretty quickly, but the Loot Whore tends to rearer their ugly head more in raiding guilds.  They are usually thwarted by observant Guild leadership, spoken with in private, suggestions of changing their evil ways are discussed and if they don’t respond, they get the infamous “/gkick”.

I bring all this up, because a very conscientious player was labeled a Loot Whore by our so called guild leadership.  Not only was he labeled as one, but anyone that associated with him or took his position in his disagreement with “Leadership” would also pretty much be branded a Loot Whore and the leadership would no longer consider them for loot in the future raids. 

How was all this found out?  One would think that anything this disruptive would be handled privately among all parties and if an amicable solution wasn’t found, the offending player would be asked politely to leave or in a worse case scenario, just “/gkick” -ed.  But instead, the Guild leader posted the situation on the website, replacing all the players involved with the terms “Player A, Player B , and Player C”, then laid out only his side of the discussion, referring to some of those involved as “Loot Whores”, informing all other players who associated with “Player B & C” they would get no chance at loot in raids and then locked off the thread so there wouldn’t be any healthy discussion.  Maturity at its finest!

Here is a summary:

 Player B was doing a Gruul’s run with the guild. Here is a little background on this player, they power leveled a shaman, because the guild was really short on healers.  Player B spent a solid 2 months going from 1 to 70 and then proceeded to get all the Kara runs in that they could, just to get gear to be of some help doing the 25 man raids. While doing the Gruul’s run, an item dropped for a shaman, there happened to be two in the raid, Player B and Player A.  A discussion was had by leadership on the raid, and the item was then handed off to Player A, and con graduations were handed out and the guild moved on.

There was no explanation, no open discussion, nothing.  The item could have been an upgrade for both shaman’s and at best they should have both rolled on the item.  Player A had been in the guild longer and had done a few more raids than Player B, but Player B did spend a lot of time leveling up a character to help the guild out, therefore no one could discount Player B’s guild dedication.  But none of this was said by leadership, they just handed the item off, said gratz and moved on.

So, in steps Player C.  Player C decided that Player B at least needed an explanation for the “Leadership’s” actions. Which should be fair.  It also happens to be a fact that Player C is related in RL to Player B, so naturally they would want an explanation. It is true, that in some instances, where your governing a group of people, you just have to tell them, this is the way it is, suck it up and lets move on.  There will be no forth coming explanation of our actions.  But, when it comes to something like loot rules and how distribution is decided, an explanation is in order.  Especially since the only thing in a raid thats motivating your membership is the loot.

This met with resistance from the “Leadership”.  They didn’t want to discuss the way they decide stuff.  We still don’t know if they throw bones on a table, consult the Gods or just go Enny, Menny, Minny, Moe. Needless to say, the discussion, which took place in vent, didn’t go to well for Player C and not long after that, a post went up on the message board, basically telling the guild that the “Leadership” didn’t need to explain their looting rules with anyone.  “Leadership” then decided to label Player C, who was only looking out for another guild mate, as a “LOOT WHORE”.

 Considering the above definition, I don’t think looking out for another player’s best interest,especially when they got screwed over for a piece of loot, would qualify here, relative or not.  The problem is, Player C  had a habit of questioning poor loot decisions, not just those concerning them or family members, but for everyone.  Player C would always make sure the right person ended up with the right gear fairly.  I know this to be true because Player C ran a few Kara runs I was in, and I witnessed it first hand.  No one got favored over anyone else and everyone was happy with the loot decisions.  Player C even gave up a few pieces to others, which they won fairly on a roll, because they knew it was a better upgrade for the other player.

The problem, as “Leadership” saw it, was Player C.  On several other instance and not concerning loot, Player C would buck the trend and question the “Leadership” a lot about their decisions.  So being a modern day “Thomas Paine” didn’t help Player C’s case a lot, but to label someone as a Loot Whore, just because they are trying to help a guild member, even if it is a relative, well, it’s just plan wrong.  And to do it on a public forum is just plan childish and vindictive. 

Those types of actions don’t instill any confidence or suggest any maturity in the “Leadership”.  Of course, even though the thread was locked off, people did post on the site, and seeing the problem they had stirred up, the “Leadership” removed the original and all proceeding posts.  Lucky, I do know where there is a copy and its right here.

The fact that the names had been changed in the post is just another example of how “Leadership” doesn’t think. You see, it doesn’t really matter if you change the names, people will find out, for two reasons.  One, you can’t keep a secret like this from a large group of say, 100 people.  As a matter of fact, when it gets out, it spreads like wild fire and becomes so distorted, its hard to even know what the original story was, unless you consult those involved directly, which I did.  Secondly, if the “Leadership” thinks those involved aren’t going to have something to say about such a defaming post they must have been completely insane!

Due to all this, the people effected by this left the guild and took a good number of their friends with them.  Why?,  because as the post suggests, they were afraid of guilt by association, and didn’t want to get screwed out of any future raiding loot.  The “Leadership” still has not posted a set of loot rules or criteria of how they decide who gets what items.  More examples of poor judgement.

They have also kept the secret that you can only run one main in the guild and any alts that do raids won’t get a chance at gear.  They don’t post or list this anywhere and I believe the reason for this is so they can spring it on people at the last minute.  Basically, so players that take the time to bring in alts to fill in much needed spots will later be told that in appreciation for this much needed service, by providing support to the guild so the raid could be successful, you won’t be getting a chance for any great loot. Its a cruel joke, but the word has spread around, so a bunch of people have taken characters out of the guild, so they can make their alts their new mains.  I don’t think those in the “Leadership” have ever managed people before, let alone a small pet.

 Lack of communications in a guild with so many people, trying to coordinate raids and events together is just a recipe for disaster.  This is why the game has a guild info tab, a guild message of the day, and why many, well organized guilds have personal websites with forum boards.  All this in an attempt to make communication with your members easy, so the dispersion of rules, behavior and other information can reach them.  But to make up rules on the fly, just to suit the situation is just wrong, and should be questioned without judgement or disapproval from the “Leadership”.

I’m still surprised that the guild is still in one piece after such an upheaval, but alas it still is. The strange thing is the guild was formed by members of another guild, that got treated badly or went to the defense of other members that received poor treatment.  I guess it is true, the abused eventually become the abuser.

At this point, I’m still in the guild.  I have real life friends there who have yet to make a decision about the next course of action.  These days I’m more motivated to hanging out with them, than seeing what’s behind the next bit of High End content.  I think that has a lot to do with having LOTRO as a handy standby if things start to go bad in WoW.  Its a cop out I’m sure, but everyone needs to have a place where they can escape from their imaginary world, especially if it too gets troubled and complicated.  Don’t you think?

 

 

 

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~ by oakstout on April 16, 2008.

14 Responses to “Loot Whore”

  1. I can definitely see why you have bad feelings about guilds. The above is just total crap.

    Get out, find a good guild and see what the end game is like!

  2. This is why guilds with loot council are not for me. If you work hard, attend raids in a dkp guild you get what you deserve. Work hard in a loot council guild and you might be lucky and get called a loot whore for asking.

  3. Thanks Dasher.

    I’ve been the victim of some very bad guilds or to be specific Guild Leadership. The problem is, I can’t have my cake and eat it too.

    i would like to be in a hard core Raiding guild, but make it as friendly as petting a kitten. This maybe almost impossible, especially when over 8 million people are involved. lol But it has been known to happen on rare occassions.

    So, right now, I’m just hanging with my real life buds. This seems to make me less annoyed, and doesn’t get me to flip out over such things as the one stated in the post.

    One has to remember that even if its a “virtual world”, its still a world, with the same problems a real one would have with so many people in it. Not everyone in a world is going to get along, and they certainly aren’t all going to have the same goals.

    The trick is to find, as they always say, like minded individuals, that can group up, form a great guild and get things done. Finding the like minded individuals is the hard part.

  4. I probably would of left the guild. Unless my friends in the guild didn’t want to go. (And that probably way the majorty of the people stayed, becasue the people they knew stayed as well.).

    But i honstly see future drama coming.

  5. I agree with Ogrebears, this is just the first glimpse of their true nature. There has been drama in the past, and more to come.

    As to your RL friends, take a stand, be the leader not the follower. Leave the guild and I imagine your friends will follow.

    Personally, I would rather not be in a guild at all than in one in which I knew sucked, was dishonest/self serving and using it’s members for their (officers) benefit.

    Good luck!

  6. It’s not impossible to get in a good — and very friendly — raiding group. I don’t miss WoW at all, but I do miss the group I raided with.

    I never had any luck with raid guilds however, though I’m sure they exist. The group I ended up joining was a coalition of many guilds, formed to become a regular group for raids while not forcing everyone to leave their friends in their guilds. We used a somewhat modified version of… I forget the looting scheme’s name… but better than DKP. In fact, I’ll leave any guild/group the moment they adopt DKP.

    In any event, you have 10 million+ people playing the game; it’s certainly conceivable a small subset of them would be cool to raid with…

  7. Sad story. Seen the very same thing from guilds. My thoughts are not as of most on the subject. I fee all loots should be decided by lotto, no exceptions. With the new lotto system in place it helps make sure folks get what it for thier class and on other stuff ATLEAST you get a roll on it.

    Guild are about clicks of people and this will never change and DKP system and others stink imo This way people are bound by honor to decline on things they dont need so other wil give them the same respect. I know im alone in my way of thinking but atleast you get a roll because we all fought for the lot in the first place. just my 2 cents worth. Not ment to offend anyone

  8. I’ve never posted here before but I believe good ‘ole Oakstout/Gwion knows me 🙂

    Let me play devil’s advocate and state what I think the guild is thinking…..

    Some people, when looting, even in lower dungeons, will say that they need an item because they have an alt that can use it/will need it/”it will be real cool to have…..eventually”.

    I could see a situation arise in a ‘leet dungeon where you might have people that will think “Damn! that’s a nice mage piece….even though I’m running a tank…..I’d like to get it if even just to keep it in the bank JUST IN CASE I ever decide to run a mage” I think this is the definition of a lewt whore.

    The guild needs to draw a definition between who has power-levelled different classes to benefit the guild and lewt whores. Someone who want to benefit the guild SHOULD get a broader range of loot because they’ve done more in the interest of the guild.
    I just think this guild needs to draw the distinction along those lines.

  9. I’ve had that plenty of times too, and that’s fine during a guild-only dungeon run but — in my opinion — not during a raid. There are too many other people and other factors to consider during raids.

    Of course, people only raid selfishly to get loot for themselves, so ‘consideration’ doesn’t enter the picture often, unfortunately.

    Raid groups simply need to clarify not only loot rules, but loot etiquette, which means “your alt can earn it himself, if the character you are using can’t use it, you pass on it — PERIOD!”

  10. Yea, its pretty hard to understand why they don’t have a loot rule for the 25 person Raids. 10 person raids, you can pretty much work the loot issue out, especially if you have say, Kara on a farm status for anyone that pops into the guild and needs gear.

    I did speak to the guild leader in a rather general way to have him clarify the alt vs Main character. As suspected, you have to declare a main toon and an alt toon, if both of them are of raiding status, meaning they have the gear to do Gruul or say SSC. I don’t see any problem with this because some people don’t have the time to work up more than one character to raiding status and it would be wrong to loot gear out from under them with an alt, when you already have a pretty well geared main.

    But, if you bring in an alt to fill in a much needed spot during a raid and if that character can use the loot that drops, then because your time is valuable, you should get a roll on the loot when it drops. PERIOD. If they had to PuG that spot, the person they PuG-ed would get dibs on the gear, so why not let another guildie have it?

    After clarifying the Alt vs Main issue, I suggested they post that valuable information the guild forum board, but I’m pretty sure that idea fell on deaf ears.

    Anyway, it really doesn’t matter because they can’t seem to get everyone together these days for a Raid. They will post a raid for friday on Tuesday, but then on Friday they will let everyone know that Saturday they will be finishing up what they didn’t get done from Friday’s raid. Sad, but its a little late to be trying to wrangle people to come back on Saturday, at the last minute, but then they also have to pre-empt another kara raid for their raid. Just bad form I say.

  11. Certainly I’m not saying if you bring an alt he gets the Loot Nazi “no loot for you!” thanks for helping, don’t let the door hit ya on the way out treatment.

    I was lucky enough in WoW to be part of the coolest raid group – EVER – and ended up raiding with three of my characters. If I recall, I was only on the loot roster for whichever one I declared as my main (I have severe main/alt issues though) and through my own personal principles, etc. I would normally either refuse to roll or ask to be placed at the very bottom of the list when playing my alts. Flip side of that coin: because mine were alts, the regulars of that class normally already had the item in question so my alt received it by default rather than disenchanting it.

  12. […] the response to my “Loot Whore” blog was awesome.  As expected, because I’m was pretty sure I wasn’t insane, […]

  13. “Especially since the only thing in a raid thats motivating your membership is the loot”

    Meh, I will never get that kind of thinking. It’s one of the reasons for all the drama in raid guilds.

    Loot should be one of the tools that enable you to raid and to improve and work towards higher tiers and not the motivation, or reason for you to raid in the first place.

  14. In a gear-based game, it comes down to loot whether you (and your group) are purely in it for selfish motives or not.

    Even the so-called “social raiders” who raid to be together and conquer new content eventually need Loot A to continue into Raid B.

    Selfish raiders certainly don’t help, but I’ve even seen (light) “drama” where people kept being generous and passing on loot. Everyone comes to a point in time where, either to their own eyes or those of their peers, they need the loot.

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